1 00:00:24,339 --> 00:00:16,080 [Music] 2 00:00:25,659 --> 00:00:24,349 thank you it's it's great honor to be 3 00:00:28,330 --> 00:00:25,669 here let me just give you a warning 4 00:00:29,799 --> 00:00:28,340 right away that this presentation may 5 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:29,809 make you feel uncomfortable the science 6 00:00:34,150 --> 00:00:31,610 won't but some of the other things about 7 00:00:36,790 --> 00:00:34,160 the person may so with that being said 8 00:00:39,460 --> 00:00:36,800 let me just try to tell you a little bit 9 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:39,470 about me for a second I've had a long 10 00:00:45,910 --> 00:00:42,650 career at Intel and digital equipment 11 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:45,920 and Silicon Valley startups for some 35 12 00:00:52,210 --> 00:00:47,770 years I'm basically a business 13 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:52,220 technology person and I got into this 14 00:00:59,470 --> 00:00:55,730 and I'll explain a little why just out 15 00:01:01,780 --> 00:00:59,480 of general curiosity my real company is 16 00:01:04,450 --> 00:01:01,790 is frontline aerospace and we do drones 17 00:01:06,850 --> 00:01:04,460 and quickly pivoted towards gas turbine 18 00:01:10,539 --> 00:01:06,860 efficiency where we talk about you know 19 00:01:11,980 --> 00:01:10,549 saving 10 to 40% in in fuel and gas 20 00:01:12,550 --> 00:01:11,990 turbines but that's really not why I'm 21 00:01:17,739 --> 00:01:12,560 here 22 00:01:20,739 --> 00:01:17,749 Papp and the mystery of the noble gas 23 00:01:21,910 --> 00:01:20,749 engine I had some synchronicities that 24 00:01:24,940 --> 00:01:21,920 occurred for those people that are 25 00:01:27,129 --> 00:01:24,950 familiar with with that back in November 26 00:01:28,410 --> 00:01:27,139 of 13 where I was talking to Tom Valon 27 00:01:31,559 --> 00:01:28,420 on the phone I said what's the latest 28 00:01:33,940 --> 00:01:31,569 interesting of overunity 29 00:01:35,590 --> 00:01:33,950 thought and he said well you got to look 30 00:01:38,559 --> 00:01:35,600 at the noble gas engine that's why then 31 00:01:40,510 --> 00:01:38,569 I I called my dad who's in the front row 32 00:01:42,370 --> 00:01:40,520 dr. Bob wood and said have you ever 33 00:01:44,980 --> 00:01:42,380 heard of the PAP engine and he said well 34 00:01:48,099 --> 00:01:44,990 you know I was just editing a book by 35 00:01:51,039 --> 00:01:48,109 Tompkins and he has a whole chapter 36 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:51,049 about that and so I said wow that's 37 00:01:55,089 --> 00:01:52,490 interesting and then I looked up on the 38 00:01:57,069 --> 00:01:55,099 web and so Wow I found a dis explosion 39 00:01:59,589 --> 00:01:57,079 article that Richard Fineman was at and 40 00:02:03,399 --> 00:01:59,599 then I found the the Cal Tech editor who 41 00:02:05,379 --> 00:02:03,409 was was there and he did a project for a 42 00:02:06,789 --> 00:02:05,389 senior project on sunspots and so did I 43 00:02:08,290 --> 00:02:06,799 so there's all these things that 44 00:02:11,230 --> 00:02:08,300 happened in like six hours is it okay 45 00:02:12,699 --> 00:02:11,240 that's it I'm gonna dig into this and so 46 00:02:15,069 --> 00:02:12,709 I started to dig into it you know so I 47 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:15,079 did what I do and that sort of be an 48 00:02:18,610 --> 00:02:16,970 investigative journalist be a patent 49 00:02:19,350 --> 00:02:18,620 lawyer about this you know look at the 50 00:02:21,210 --> 00:02:19,360 technology 51 00:02:23,940 --> 00:02:21,220 much as I can that's why I sort of dug 52 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:23,950 in and tried to and my conclusion is 53 00:02:29,070 --> 00:02:26,290 that this is a very solvable problem 54 00:02:30,420 --> 00:02:29,080 right now this is the quick agenda we'll 55 00:02:32,340 --> 00:02:30,430 talk about Joe Papp sort of this 56 00:02:34,650 --> 00:02:32,350 chronology some of the data sources that 57 00:02:37,230 --> 00:02:34,660 I use the technical how does it work and 58 00:02:40,590 --> 00:02:37,240 and what to do next the quick overview 59 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:40,600 of the PAP engine is you you have when 60 00:02:44,310 --> 00:02:42,250 it's expanded this is just sort of an 61 00:02:46,350 --> 00:02:44,320 internal combustion engine diagram when 62 00:02:50,670 --> 00:02:46,360 it's expanded you have these noble gases 63 00:02:55,260 --> 00:02:50,680 and chlorine in the in the bottom of and 64 00:02:58,020 --> 00:02:55,270 deoxygenated water gas at the bottom and 65 00:03:02,370 --> 00:02:58,030 and to electrolysis pieces let's see if 66 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:02,380 I can get the laser pointer well it it 67 00:03:06,690 --> 00:03:04,090 goes on from two electrodes you're 68 00:03:08,580 --> 00:03:06,700 making a little hydrogen and then then 69 00:03:10,290 --> 00:03:08,590 when it compresses up there's an 70 00:03:13,370 --> 00:03:10,300 electric spark that goes across and it 71 00:03:16,170 --> 00:03:13,380 explodes the UV light triggers the 72 00:03:18,510 --> 00:03:16,180 chlorine and the hydrogen gas and it 73 00:03:21,350 --> 00:03:18,520 explodes very rapidly and back and forth 74 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:21,360 and that's sort of how it how it works 75 00:03:26,850 --> 00:03:23,890 so that's the quick overview all 76 00:03:29,910 --> 00:03:26,860 Daleville more deeply into it as we go 77 00:03:33,030 --> 00:03:29,920 on but anyway a quick overview of pap he 78 00:03:37,050 --> 00:03:33,040 was born in 33 in Hungary he got a job 79 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:37,060 at the Academy of Sciences in in Hungary 80 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:41,170 he left Hungary at the revolution went 81 00:03:48,509 --> 00:03:45,970 to Canada and then went on to the US the 82 00:03:52,050 --> 00:03:48,519 first problem with pap is that he came 83 00:03:54,390 --> 00:03:52,060 over from Hungary and created this 300 84 00:03:57,180 --> 00:03:54,400 mile per hour submarine allegedly and 85 00:03:58,350 --> 00:03:57,190 this is a picture of his engine power 86 00:04:01,680 --> 00:03:58,360 plant on the right and you wrote a book 87 00:04:02,490 --> 00:04:01,690 about this and he went from Montreal to 88 00:04:05,039 --> 00:04:02,500 Brest 89 00:04:08,670 --> 00:04:05,049 over in France and 300 miles per hour 90 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:08,680 and said he did that and he's a great 91 00:04:14,759 --> 00:04:10,930 draftsman he had the skills and drew 92 00:04:16,469 --> 00:04:14,769 these fancy pictures of his design and 93 00:04:19,280 --> 00:04:16,479 build it and there's photographs of it 94 00:04:24,060 --> 00:04:19,290 and so forth but at the same time he's 95 00:04:27,090 --> 00:04:24,070 sort of bipolar wacko and he really went 96 00:04:28,830 --> 00:04:27,100 across the Atlantic at an airplane and 97 00:04:31,620 --> 00:04:28,840 hit himself in the head and was floating 98 00:04:32,519 --> 00:04:31,630 off a naval base when they picked him up 99 00:04:34,469 --> 00:04:32,529 and he was 100 00:04:38,969 --> 00:04:34,479 tarah graded by the French guru Mir 101 00:04:42,389 --> 00:04:38,979 which is the FBI at the time and he 102 00:04:46,649 --> 00:04:42,399 admits to doing this but nevertheless he 103 00:04:49,769 --> 00:04:46,659 really had something and so he got a lot 104 00:04:53,579 --> 00:04:49,779 of baggage from that and and left Canada 105 00:04:56,039 --> 00:04:53,589 and went to Southern California and in 106 00:04:59,189 --> 00:04:56,049 October of 68 after he just finished 107 00:05:01,889 --> 00:04:59,199 filing all his patents he he convinced 108 00:05:07,139 --> 00:05:01,899 the naval undersea warfare Center in 109 00:05:09,719 --> 00:05:07,149 Pasadena at the time to take his sort of 110 00:05:11,849 --> 00:05:09,729 noble gas soup that he had created out 111 00:05:13,229 --> 00:05:11,859 to the desert and do an explosion and 112 00:05:15,059 --> 00:05:13,239 we'll talk about that and there was also 113 00:05:17,699 --> 00:05:15,069 an explosion at the environmental 114 00:05:21,329 --> 00:05:17,709 environmental ah which I'll talk about 115 00:05:23,489 --> 00:05:21,339 and then General Dynamics did one so 116 00:05:26,699 --> 00:05:23,499 this is the cannon explosion video which 117 00:05:28,739 --> 00:05:26,709 you can see on the web you know three 118 00:05:31,139 --> 00:05:28,749 inch stainless steel 3/8 inch diameter 119 00:05:33,979 --> 00:05:31,149 about a foot of concrete all around and 120 00:05:38,219 --> 00:05:33,989 they take it out to the desert and they 121 00:05:42,119 --> 00:05:38,229 videotape at all and he he injects about 122 00:05:45,619 --> 00:05:42,129 ten cc's of gas into each out of each 123 00:05:47,969 --> 00:05:45,629 one of these flasks into the breach and 124 00:05:49,409 --> 00:05:47,979 I've got witnesses that were there and 125 00:05:51,479 --> 00:05:49,419 saw him do him and every time he did it 126 00:05:53,129 --> 00:05:51,489 more his hands started shaking more and 127 00:05:55,649 --> 00:05:53,139 more and more this is according to Cecil 128 00:05:57,959 --> 00:05:55,659 Bumgardner which I'll talk about so this 129 00:06:01,079 --> 00:05:57,969 is a picture it's kind of hard to see 130 00:06:04,409 --> 00:06:01,089 but there's a little syringe like metal 131 00:06:06,869 --> 00:06:04,419 cylinder there in pictured so the UV 132 00:06:09,539 --> 00:06:06,879 light doesn't trigger the chlorine 133 00:06:12,409 --> 00:06:09,549 hydrogen gas that's in there and he 134 00:06:14,879 --> 00:06:12,419 plugs it all in and it goes kaboom and 135 00:06:17,009 --> 00:06:14,889 it blows everything to kingdom come 136 00:06:18,929 --> 00:06:17,019 and so I asked what our Navy SEAL 137 00:06:21,419 --> 00:06:18,939 commander friends you know how much c4 138 00:06:23,249 --> 00:06:21,429 does that take to blow this up and he 139 00:06:25,529 --> 00:06:23,259 sort of said well it's really hard to 140 00:06:28,229 --> 00:06:25,539 estimate without you know details but 141 00:06:31,199 --> 00:06:28,239 nevertheless I think point force 0.7 142 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:31,209 pounds of c-4 which is 1.4 mega joules 143 00:06:38,669 --> 00:06:33,849 for about 50 cc's of gas so it's clearly 144 00:06:40,739 --> 00:06:38,679 something not chemical my quick estimate 145 00:06:43,109 --> 00:06:40,749 was you know it's ten to the twelfth 146 00:06:46,380 --> 00:06:43,119 joules per kilogram oh that's just 147 00:06:48,840 --> 00:06:46,390 gigantic energy 148 00:06:51,540 --> 00:06:48,850 considering you know and then there's 149 00:06:53,270 --> 00:06:51,550 either an cluster impact fusion anybody 150 00:06:57,120 --> 00:06:53,280 ever heard of cluster impact fusion 151 00:06:59,730 --> 00:06:57,130 nobody SR I 1990 this I think it went 152 00:07:01,830 --> 00:06:59,740 classified but nevertheless let me talk 153 00:07:03,450 --> 00:07:01,840 to you about this other explosion was in 154 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:03,460 the environment expiring lot this is LA 155 00:07:08,610 --> 00:07:06,370 Times article PAP had this demonstration 156 00:07:10,950 --> 00:07:08,620 with seventy people including dr. 157 00:07:14,910 --> 00:07:10,960 richard fineman of Caltech who was there 158 00:07:17,010 --> 00:07:14,920 and they set it all up and the engine 159 00:07:18,690 --> 00:07:17,020 was running and so forth and then fine 160 00:07:20,310 --> 00:07:18,700 man runs over and pulls the plug out and 161 00:07:21,660 --> 00:07:20,320 perhaps his well you really shouldn't do 162 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:21,670 that the plug was for some 163 00:07:26,850 --> 00:07:24,730 instrumentation that was monitoring 164 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:26,860 things and and then eventually PAP got 165 00:07:30,630 --> 00:07:28,930 more irritated and said well you really 166 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:30,640 ought to plug that back in and so he 167 00:07:34,140 --> 00:07:32,170 plugged it back in and blows up kills 168 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:34,150 Jack Edward Hartman who was a Mattel 169 00:07:39,540 --> 00:07:37,690 engineer who was also a friend of I had 170 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:39,550 another friend who was a Mattel engineer 171 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:40,930 a new jack Hartmann another 172 00:07:47,030 --> 00:07:43,890 synchronicity others range isn't injured 173 00:07:49,650 --> 00:07:47,040 and fine was guilty of involuntary 174 00:07:53,070 --> 00:07:49,660 manslaughter and settled settled out of 175 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:53,080 court with Caltech Jack Edward Hartman 176 00:07:58,920 --> 00:07:55,330 is the interesting guy he was 177 00:08:02,610 --> 00:07:58,930 I've got his autopsy and they did a you 178 00:08:05,550 --> 00:08:02,620 know radiation scan for him two days 179 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:05,560 after his autopsy very unusual to have 180 00:08:10,410 --> 00:08:07,090 that that was the actual device that 181 00:08:12,180 --> 00:08:10,420 they were using at the time so Fineman 182 00:08:15,660 --> 00:08:12,190 settles out of court and he writes this 183 00:08:19,530 --> 00:08:15,670 article skeptical in skeptical inquirer 184 00:08:21,300 --> 00:08:19,540 but in general its it's his beliefs pap 185 00:08:24,210 --> 00:08:21,310 was a fraud you know and it's just his 186 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:24,220 hubris and lack of ability to just step 187 00:08:29,220 --> 00:08:26,970 back and and continue to investigate but 188 00:08:34,230 --> 00:08:29,230 nevertheless Fineman settles out of 189 00:08:36,900 --> 00:08:34,240 court and there's a lawsuit between pap 190 00:08:39,270 --> 00:08:36,910 and and and rahzar which is the 191 00:08:41,790 --> 00:08:39,280 environment expand in the legal 192 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:41,800 documents there's a carve-out in the 193 00:08:46,560 --> 00:08:43,450 back saying between our agreement that 194 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:46,570 this solid fuel that i invented for my 195 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:50,170 submarine is not part of the agreement 196 00:08:54,810 --> 00:08:53,650 and so the question is how the heck you 197 00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:54,820 know we were talking about these noble 198 00:08:59,130 --> 00:08:57,010 gas soups that explode 199 00:09:00,540 --> 00:08:59,140 how does he doing with a solid fuel to 200 00:09:01,829 --> 00:09:00,550 so one 201 00:09:05,930 --> 00:09:01,839 thought is you know is this solid 202 00:09:14,090 --> 00:09:10,110 that's a possibility and then I got 203 00:09:17,220 --> 00:09:14,100 involved found the the court appointed 204 00:09:19,139 --> 00:09:17,230 John Phillips who was a lawyer at the 205 00:09:21,449 --> 00:09:19,149 time to arbitrate these two back and 206 00:09:23,550 --> 00:09:21,459 forth for a couple years and he tried 207 00:09:25,290 --> 00:09:23,560 really hard to get he thought there was 208 00:09:28,110 --> 00:09:25,300 something very serious and real and 209 00:09:29,940 --> 00:09:28,120 important in this engine demonstrations 210 00:09:31,259 --> 00:09:29,950 and so forth and he tried to get these 211 00:09:33,990 --> 00:09:31,269 people to work together for a couple of 212 00:09:37,889 --> 00:09:34,000 years and he's currently the ambassador 213 00:09:40,170 --> 00:09:37,899 to Italy right now and he still believes 214 00:09:42,030 --> 00:09:40,180 to this day that there's something 215 00:09:44,430 --> 00:09:42,040 important here with this 216 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:44,440 after spending a long time talking with 217 00:09:50,130 --> 00:09:47,410 all the parties involved and he 218 00:09:53,490 --> 00:09:50,140 confirmed many aspects of what I've read 219 00:09:57,810 --> 00:09:53,500 and researched all about the Joe Papp 220 00:09:59,730 --> 00:09:57,820 Engine III did an interview with David 221 00:10:03,990 --> 00:09:59,740 Ansley who was a San Jose Mercury News 222 00:10:06,210 --> 00:10:04,000 reporter down the road and he wrote a 223 00:10:09,620 --> 00:10:06,220 big article about the PAP engine right 224 00:10:12,030 --> 00:10:09,630 out the pons Fleischmann activity in 89 225 00:10:14,069 --> 00:10:12,040 and he interviewed four different 226 00:10:16,710 --> 00:10:14,079 sources and confirmed many aspects of 227 00:10:19,019 --> 00:10:16,720 this situation I interviewed Cecil 228 00:10:22,319 --> 00:10:19,029 Bumgardner who's alive today and he was 229 00:10:24,269 --> 00:10:22,329 a TRW employee he confirmed that the PAP 230 00:10:26,970 --> 00:10:24,279 engine was running in a conference room 231 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:26,980 closed conference room for hours on end 232 00:10:31,410 --> 00:10:29,770 he was at the desert explosion we can 233 00:10:35,670 --> 00:10:31,420 there's a long interview article with 234 00:10:37,980 --> 00:10:35,680 him and infinite energy bill Tompkins 235 00:10:41,340 --> 00:10:37,990 was another interesting fellow he worked 236 00:10:45,180 --> 00:10:41,350 at TRW and managed the PAP project 237 00:10:47,189 --> 00:10:45,190 eventually PAP had this explosion and 238 00:10:49,199 --> 00:10:47,199 then disappeared and went to TRW and 239 00:10:51,870 --> 00:10:49,209 they set him up with a classified 240 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:51,880 program and he quickly Tompkins broke 241 00:10:59,550 --> 00:10:54,010 the project into two projects one a bomb 242 00:11:02,850 --> 00:10:59,560 project and one a engine project and so 243 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:02,860 they they married kept working along the 244 00:11:09,569 --> 00:11:06,370 way Tompkins confirmed the chlorine gas 245 00:11:11,610 --> 00:11:09,579 and this noble gas soup were key 246 00:11:13,199 --> 00:11:11,620 elements of what's going on and then one 247 00:11:13,670 --> 00:11:13,209 day he came to work and everything was 248 00:11:16,010 --> 00:11:13,680 zeroed 249 00:11:19,820 --> 00:11:16,020 of his his green sheets in his budget 250 00:11:22,100 --> 00:11:19,830 and so he was really pissed about this 251 00:11:27,350 --> 00:11:22,110 and his boss said go talk to sy Ramos 252 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:27,360 the R and TR W and Remo said you know 253 00:11:32,150 --> 00:11:29,610 hey I had to cancel it I was asked to 254 00:11:33,500 --> 00:11:32,160 I'm pissed about this too I don't think 255 00:11:35,870 --> 00:11:33,510 they've canceled the bomb project 256 00:11:40,490 --> 00:11:35,880 element of it all I have a good friend 257 00:11:42,889 --> 00:11:40,500 who spent his life in the Air Force in 258 00:11:44,420 --> 00:11:42,899 nuclear surety and then in private 259 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:44,430 industry worried about nuclear surety 260 00:11:49,790 --> 00:11:46,770 and I and I said Ron is there anything 261 00:11:55,210 --> 00:11:49,800 different or anything between a chemical 262 00:11:58,280 --> 00:11:55,220 bomb and a nuke and he stared at me and 263 00:12:00,290 --> 00:11:58,290 just nodded his head he didn't answer 264 00:12:02,630 --> 00:12:00,300 the question but that's what he did and 265 00:12:04,850 --> 00:12:02,640 so this is an example of something that 266 00:12:07,130 --> 00:12:04,860 might be in between the two Hines 267 00:12:08,990 --> 00:12:07,140 klostermann who's down in Mountain View 268 00:12:13,250 --> 00:12:09,000 raised some money did some work about 269 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:13,260 this and rauner and their rwg and 270 00:12:17,329 --> 00:12:15,450 there's many other people that have done 271 00:12:20,420 --> 00:12:17,339 experiments and worked and raised money 272 00:12:22,550 --> 00:12:20,430 to try to figure out how this works but 273 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:22,560 they all fail to get a true power 274 00:12:27,110 --> 00:12:24,450 input-output test which is the holy 275 00:12:29,870 --> 00:12:27,120 grail of everything and until you've got 276 00:12:31,519 --> 00:12:29,880 that you don't have anything so that's 277 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:31,529 been the challenge I've looked at all 278 00:12:35,510 --> 00:12:33,450 sorts of other data sources and I keep 279 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:35,520 gathering more and more intelligence 280 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:38,250 about what this is going on and I've got 281 00:12:42,650 --> 00:12:40,650 more I just learned you today that my 282 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:42,660 appeal to the FBI came back and said 283 00:12:47,660 --> 00:12:43,770 well yeah we found some more information 284 00:12:50,420 --> 00:12:47,670 about Joseph Papp and will respond to 285 00:12:51,949 --> 00:12:50,430 you in our appeal so all we'd probably 286 00:12:56,199 --> 00:12:51,959 know the six months before I get back a 287 00:12:58,790 --> 00:12:56,209 big stack if fineman's FBI file stops in 288 00:13:01,069 --> 00:12:58,800 1960 and there's a whole bunch of stuff 289 00:13:02,750 --> 00:13:01,079 that's past 1960 what you can't have 290 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:02,760 access to yet and if I've appealed 291 00:13:06,319 --> 00:13:05,010 fineman's FBI file as well but anyway 292 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:06,329 PAP is a whack job 293 00:13:14,569 --> 00:13:08,970 you know he's paranoid he's a conniver 294 00:13:18,260 --> 00:13:14,579 he he's genius he's a workaholic 295 00:13:20,300 --> 00:13:18,270 he's he's basically bipolar with 296 00:13:22,519 --> 00:13:20,310 munchausen syndrome he shot himself in 297 00:13:24,530 --> 00:13:22,529 the shoulder one time he doesn't believe 298 00:13:26,990 --> 00:13:24,540 anybody he's secretive in many different 299 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:27,000 ways and he was so secretive and weird 300 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:29,490 but he drove his wife over the edge and 301 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:32,250 his wife freaked out and basically slit 302 00:13:37,310 --> 00:13:33,930 his daughter's wrists and tried to 303 00:13:41,060 --> 00:13:37,320 commit suicide to herself and you know I 304 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:41,070 interviewed Gary Szabo who was was there 305 00:13:47,390 --> 00:13:44,130 at the time basically lived that and he 306 00:13:49,430 --> 00:13:47,400 PAP died in 89 left a huge probate 307 00:13:53,560 --> 00:13:49,440 issues five million dollars in IRS back 308 00:13:56,660 --> 00:13:53,570 taxes deceived a bunch of people and 309 00:13:59,170 --> 00:13:56,670 left his family penniless so that's the 310 00:14:02,180 --> 00:13:59,180 part that was probably disturbing there 311 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:02,190 but nevertheless I think he really had 312 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:05,490 something so the question is how does 313 00:14:09,140 --> 00:14:07,530 this work so I looked at these various 314 00:14:11,030 --> 00:14:09,150 data sources the patents the interviews 315 00:14:13,490 --> 00:14:11,040 all everything I could find and so what 316 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:13,500 I think is this ionized noble gas soup 317 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:16,170 seems to be a key component this 27 318 00:14:22,630 --> 00:14:18,330 point 1 megahertz RF frequency which 319 00:14:24,370 --> 00:14:22,640 does enhancement of the ionization 320 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:24,380 reversible chlorine and hydrogen 321 00:14:30,430 --> 00:14:27,570 reaction which is documented in gaseous 322 00:14:33,740 --> 00:14:30,440 photo chlorination books and other 323 00:14:35,810 --> 00:14:33,750 science Sparks and magnetic fields 324 00:14:38,570 --> 00:14:35,820 sparks we'll talk about that a little 325 00:14:41,810 --> 00:14:38,580 bit electrolysis maybe that's a little 326 00:14:44,510 --> 00:14:41,820 HHO involvement radiation alpha beta 327 00:14:47,210 --> 00:14:44,520 gamma and then deoxygenated water which 328 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:47,220 he uses and mentions in the patents so 329 00:14:55,010 --> 00:14:52,250 there's there's some interesting soup of 330 00:14:58,850 --> 00:14:55,020 ideas here that could be figured out 331 00:15:02,240 --> 00:14:58,860 hopefully but anyway in essence this is 332 00:15:05,690 --> 00:15:02,250 oscillating pressure of you compress it 333 00:15:08,870 --> 00:15:05,700 all and the hydrogen and the chlorine 334 00:15:10,730 --> 00:15:08,880 gas become very explosive when you hit 335 00:15:12,350 --> 00:15:10,740 them with UV light and they come down 336 00:15:15,140 --> 00:15:12,360 and then they they have a very slow 337 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:15,150 reaction and they come back and so 338 00:15:20,810 --> 00:15:17,850 that's very well understood and written 339 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:20,820 up there's also the dynamometer test the 340 00:15:28,610 --> 00:15:26,250 only real sort of proof that PAP did 341 00:15:32,180 --> 00:15:28,620 anything real you know they they had 342 00:15:33,350 --> 00:15:32,190 this test 776 foot-pounds of torque one 343 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:33,360 hundred and seven horsepower very 344 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:35,970 torquey engine normally you know engines 345 00:15:39,590 --> 00:15:38,010 are like one to one horsepower to torque 346 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:39,600 but this is seven to one 347 00:15:46,550 --> 00:15:43,970 is this faked maybe I don't think so 348 00:15:48,710 --> 00:15:46,560 but anyway this there's some of the 349 00:15:51,860 --> 00:15:48,720 mixtures of the chlorine gas and the 350 00:15:53,509 --> 00:15:51,870 mixtures change with time depending upon 351 00:15:55,790 --> 00:15:53,519 which patent there's three patents 352 00:15:58,189 --> 00:15:55,800 related to this chlorine gas and UV 353 00:16:00,769 --> 00:15:58,199 light explode not just like normal 354 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:00,779 combustion where things explode sort of 355 00:16:05,389 --> 00:16:02,850 serially it's the speed of light it goes 356 00:16:07,579 --> 00:16:05,399 across all of the atoms and kaboom the 357 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:07,589 whole thing explodes in a very vicious 358 00:16:15,009 --> 00:16:11,130 and manner gaseous flow to chlorination 359 00:16:18,170 --> 00:16:15,019 is a great book as a chapter all about 360 00:16:22,850 --> 00:16:18,180 shows propagation of hydrogen atoms can 361 00:16:25,189 --> 00:16:22,860 track you go back and forth so with 362 00:16:27,350 --> 00:16:25,199 sharply-defined explosion limits which I 363 00:16:30,139 --> 00:16:27,360 mentioned and there's other articles on 364 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:30,149 an explosion of hydrogen and oxygen and 365 00:16:32,809 --> 00:16:31,170 chlorine because you have these two 366 00:16:34,850 --> 00:16:32,819 electrodes creating some hydrogen and 367 00:16:35,569 --> 00:16:34,860 oxygen and the chlorine gas and then 368 00:16:37,519 --> 00:16:35,579 explode 369 00:16:41,420 --> 00:16:37,529 there's Russians did an interesting 370 00:16:43,689 --> 00:16:41,430 article in 1956 on the thermal reaction 371 00:16:46,939 --> 00:16:43,699 of fluorine and hydrogen which is a 372 00:16:48,590 --> 00:16:46,949 translation that there seems to be a lot 373 00:16:51,319 --> 00:16:48,600 of science around this time that pap 374 00:16:54,410 --> 00:16:51,329 would have been absorbed into and and 375 00:16:56,179 --> 00:16:54,420 sucked into there's a here's a word 376 00:16:58,040 --> 00:16:56,189 cloud which I can email to somebody 377 00:16:59,509 --> 00:16:58,050 about you take the patent and run it 378 00:17:02,300 --> 00:16:59,519 through a word cloud and see all the 379 00:17:04,819 --> 00:17:02,310 various ideas that come up and eight 380 00:17:08,059 --> 00:17:04,829 talks specifically about various gases 381 00:17:10,490 --> 00:17:08,069 and chlorine States and so forth this is 382 00:17:13,340 --> 00:17:10,500 a south african patent in 1981 which 383 00:17:15,949 --> 00:17:13,350 changes the noble gas mixed a little bit 384 00:17:18,319 --> 00:17:15,959 and each gas is ionized separately and 385 00:17:20,390 --> 00:17:18,329 these added coils and magnetic fields to 386 00:17:23,899 --> 00:17:20,400 this there's a lot of different elements 387 00:17:26,059 --> 00:17:23,909 that need to be studied could this be 388 00:17:26,929 --> 00:17:26,069 you know Ken shoulders work where you 389 00:17:29,779 --> 00:17:26,939 know you have this high-performance 390 00:17:32,899 --> 00:17:29,789 spark going across at the top of when 391 00:17:36,380 --> 00:17:32,909 everything is compressed could that be 392 00:17:39,919 --> 00:17:36,390 an explanation as to how he's getting 393 00:17:41,870 --> 00:17:39,929 excess energy out of this I also did a 394 00:17:43,039 --> 00:17:41,880 remote viewing with Joe mcmoneagle how 395 00:17:45,230 --> 00:17:43,049 many people have heard of Joe mcmoneagle 396 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:45,240 before okay many people so I sent him 397 00:17:50,299 --> 00:17:48,450 this are this envelope of JP 2083 which 398 00:17:52,220 --> 00:17:50,309 happens to be Joe Papp 2083 it's his 399 00:17:54,289 --> 00:17:52,230 social security number and I said 400 00:17:56,630 --> 00:17:54,299 when's the first discovery of this what 401 00:17:58,490 --> 00:17:56,640 is this secret to making the fuel is it 402 00:18:02,120 --> 00:17:58,500 in the classified world what's the best 403 00:18:05,690 --> 00:18:02,130 fuel today you know does it tap the CPE 404 00:18:06,980 --> 00:18:05,700 how does this work and and he's still 405 00:18:09,980 --> 00:18:06,990 working on this but some of the 406 00:18:12,669 --> 00:18:09,990 preliminary responses came back like 407 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:12,679 this he said it's a chemical concoction 408 00:18:18,590 --> 00:18:14,730 hydrogenation of different molecular 409 00:18:20,630 --> 00:18:18,600 components in this torus coplanar you 410 00:18:24,350 --> 00:18:20,640 can serve read the rest of it and he 411 00:18:27,590 --> 00:18:24,360 drew an embodiment of a gas turbine 412 00:18:30,350 --> 00:18:27,600 ramjet it's just normal air breathing 413 00:18:33,110 --> 00:18:30,360 but at the end you inject a special 414 00:18:35,510 --> 00:18:33,120 additive fuel to make it go better we're 415 00:18:38,210 --> 00:18:35,520 still getting more data about what's 416 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:38,220 this you know how does it really work 417 00:18:44,180 --> 00:18:41,330 and from from a intuitive point of view 418 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:44,190 so what's next really is we're looking 419 00:18:50,210 --> 00:18:46,410 at more investigations I keep digging in 420 00:18:52,340 --> 00:18:50,220 with the various science elements of 421 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:52,350 what I can discover and the witnesses 422 00:18:56,750 --> 00:18:53,970 and people that were around and saw this 423 00:18:59,090 --> 00:18:56,760 and so if I was to say well what should 424 00:19:01,490 --> 00:18:59,100 you really do next and this is what I 425 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:01,500 would do is I go spend 750 K to go 426 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:03,330 continue doing more research and 427 00:19:09,830 --> 00:19:06,330 experiment design and get the people 428 00:19:13,730 --> 00:19:09,840 together so would my estimate a year 750 429 00:19:16,490 --> 00:19:13,740 K so the reasons that you would go on 430 00:19:18,500 --> 00:19:16,500 and go do this is that there's something 431 00:19:19,159 --> 00:19:18,510 real here the explosions I don't think 432 00:19:21,860 --> 00:19:19,169 can be faked 433 00:19:24,350 --> 00:19:21,870 there really is anomalous big energy 434 00:19:27,730 --> 00:19:24,360 repeated several times there seems to be 435 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:27,740 a reduction to practice with a proven 436 00:19:35,750 --> 00:19:32,850 dynamometer test the proof is doable you 437 00:19:39,350 --> 00:19:35,760 can recreate this or make smaller scale 438 00:19:41,450 --> 00:19:39,360 and try to work through it all I think 439 00:19:44,030 --> 00:19:41,460 the risk of a null result is very low 440 00:19:47,299 --> 00:19:44,040 because you've already seen that this 441 00:19:48,950 --> 00:19:47,309 can work and then it's got the course 442 00:19:51,860 --> 00:19:48,960 civilization changing potential which is 443 00:19:53,630 --> 00:19:51,870 why we're all here and then low capital 444 00:19:57,020 --> 00:19:53,640 outlay and then the return on investment 445 00:20:00,649 --> 00:19:57,030 is is astronomical so those are the sort 446 00:20:03,120 --> 00:20:00,659 of concluding marks and and pitch really 447 00:20:05,370 --> 00:20:03,130 for why you might want to 448 00:20:07,940 --> 00:20:05,380 push it this and now if anybody's got a 449 00:20:11,070 --> 00:20:07,950 seven or $50,000 check I'm sure you can 450 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:11,080 focus on many different choices at this 451 00:20:17,580 --> 00:20:13,690 conference today to where you would put 452 00:20:20,220 --> 00:20:17,590 your money so with that comment let me 453 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:20,230 just go right to questions did I make it 454 00:20:41,340 --> 00:20:36,250 in 20 minutes yeah yeah yes 455 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:41,350 fascinating 750 K sounds like a lot but 456 00:20:44,670 --> 00:20:43,330 it's actually a very small fraction of 457 00:20:52,590 --> 00:20:44,680 the amount of money that's been spent 458 00:20:53,850 --> 00:20:52,600 both given to Jo right I think lotion 459 00:20:58,230 --> 00:20:53,860 thirty million dollars is what I've 460 00:20:59,360 --> 00:20:58,240 heard you hold down this whole you have 461 00:21:03,510 --> 00:20:59,370 a special insider 462 00:21:06,900 --> 00:21:03,520 well this special insight is nope 463 00:21:11,550 --> 00:21:06,910 everybody has failed to do the science 464 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:11,560 that this room would love to see is what 465 00:21:14,850 --> 00:21:12,970 we've had is experimenters and 466 00:21:17,190 --> 00:21:14,860 entrepreneurs and no classically trained 467 00:21:21,660 --> 00:21:17,200 scientists that would go plug at this 468 00:21:23,130 --> 00:21:21,670 and work at it in an honest way so that 469 00:21:26,460 --> 00:21:23,140 I guess that's the answer to my question 470 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:26,470 or your question did that do it for you 471 00:21:53,060 --> 00:21:51,049 thank you fascinating historical 472 00:21:55,700 --> 00:21:53,070 development but I'm totally confused 473 00:21:58,130 --> 00:21:55,710 that is it an engine and if it's an 474 00:22:01,399 --> 00:21:58,140 engine what does it do does it does it 475 00:22:03,980 --> 00:22:01,409 produce more more energy than it you put 476 00:22:06,289 --> 00:22:03,990 into it yes yes it's it's an engine a 477 00:22:08,750 --> 00:22:06,299 feuless engine you feed it no fuel you 478 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:08,760 and you gasses in it it runs perpetually 479 00:22:13,250 --> 00:22:11,850 and generates work okay that's what I 480 00:22:22,669 --> 00:22:13,260 thought you were gonna say yeah thank 481 00:22:24,710 --> 00:22:22,679 you yeah I'm not clear about the role of 482 00:22:28,029 --> 00:22:24,720 the noble gases in it can you say 483 00:22:30,590 --> 00:22:28,039 something about what they do 484 00:22:34,820 --> 00:22:30,600 that's a great question I'm not sure of 485 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:34,830 the role either other than maybe their 486 00:22:41,419 --> 00:22:38,850 their ionized to different levels 487 00:22:44,629 --> 00:22:41,429 maybe they I'm just speculating I don't 488 00:22:46,340 --> 00:22:44,639 have an answer there but that's what's 489 00:22:49,870 --> 00:22:46,350 written up in the patent and seems to be 490 00:22:55,310 --> 00:22:49,880 the other replicators have ignored the 491 00:22:57,139 --> 00:22:55,320 the thorium 2% electrodes and just and 492 00:23:00,759 --> 00:22:57,149 the chlorine gas and have just focused 493 00:23:03,980 --> 00:23:00,769 on this noble gas soup with sparks and 494 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:03,990 that's sort of how the third parties 495 00:23:13,039 --> 00:23:06,450 have taken this rather than what Papp 496 00:23:15,070 --> 00:23:13,049 originally described in his patents have 497 00:23:18,169 --> 00:23:15,080 you considered the possibility given 498 00:23:21,289 --> 00:23:18,179 that Papp was so paranoid and secretive 499 00:23:24,379 --> 00:23:21,299 that one of the reasons efforts hitherto 500 00:23:26,539 --> 00:23:24,389 to replicate has failed is that he 501 00:23:30,950 --> 00:23:26,549 didn't include all of the actual 502 00:23:33,529 --> 00:23:30,960 information in his patents yes I think 503 00:23:37,070 --> 00:23:33,539 that's that's accurate but I think the 504 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:37,080 first patent is the most interesting and 505 00:23:43,310 --> 00:23:41,730 honest and I I filed for the original 506 00:23:46,250 --> 00:23:43,320 patent application and there's some 507 00:23:52,070 --> 00:23:46,260 interesting changes in that versus what 508 00:23:55,759 --> 00:23:52,080 was actually published so divining the 509 00:23:58,610 --> 00:23:55,769 truth out of those patents is I guess 510 00:24:00,950 --> 00:23:58,620 the challenge and don't have a clean 511 00:24:03,660 --> 00:24:00,960 answer for you 512 00:24:04,350 --> 00:24:03,670 but he wanted to protect what he had I 513 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:04,360 think so 514 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:06,610 it's honest that he would say these are 515 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:08,890 the ranges and gases that he I want to 516 00:24:13,650 --> 00:24:10,570 use I want to try to protect some of 517 00:24:16,950 --> 00:24:13,660 this hey he seemed to be much more free 518 00:24:22,890 --> 00:24:16,960 with the mechanics of the engine rather 519 00:24:28,140 --> 00:24:22,900 than the secret sauce of the fuel behind 520 00:24:32,580 --> 00:24:28,150 you is there any is there any sense that 521 00:24:35,310 --> 00:24:32,590 any of this is in use with the US 522 00:24:40,170 --> 00:24:35,320 military as a secret technology or some 523 00:24:42,870 --> 00:24:40,180 other group the the only testimony that 524 00:24:45,300 --> 00:24:42,880 I have for that is my friend Ron who 525 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:45,310 said there's something in between 526 00:24:51,540 --> 00:24:48,250 chemical and nuclear and that's not 527 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:51,550 really demonstrative but the answer 528 00:24:57,690 --> 00:24:53,290 should come back and we'll keep 529 00:25:02,220 --> 00:24:57,700 exploring that potential I my gut says 530 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:02,230 yes Ryan um you said that PAP night in 531 00:25:06,540 --> 00:25:04,690 1989 I believe it was yes and I'm 532 00:25:08,220 --> 00:25:06,550 wondering if in your research and 533 00:25:12,030 --> 00:25:08,230 digging into so many things which I 534 00:25:14,490 --> 00:25:12,040 highly come in did you check into the to 535 00:25:17,360 --> 00:25:14,500 see after he died what became of his 536 00:25:19,410 --> 00:25:17,370 papers because if he had some secretive 537 00:25:23,250 --> 00:25:19,420 information that he may have kept out of 538 00:25:25,350 --> 00:25:23,260 the pen as Yorke suggested which he may 539 00:25:27,420 --> 00:25:25,360 very well have he might have had it in 540 00:25:29,610 --> 00:25:27,430 his papers that which may have been able 541 00:25:32,100 --> 00:25:29,620 to be retrieved after he died yeah 542 00:25:34,890 --> 00:25:32,110 that's a great story over lunch yeah his 543 00:25:36,870 --> 00:25:34,900 his the IRS came in and bonded 544 00:25:40,410 --> 00:25:36,880 everything in his garage or wherever he 545 00:25:43,350 --> 00:25:40,420 had it and then the the area was broken 546 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:43,360 into later on and there was a police 547 00:25:47,850 --> 00:25:45,730 reports filed for this and many people 548 00:25:51,810 --> 00:25:47,860 have been after that exact thing 549 00:25:55,410 --> 00:25:51,820 there are many caches of original papers 550 00:25:58,530 --> 00:25:55,420 and documents spread around Szabo jr. 551 00:26:01,500 --> 00:25:58,540 has some Klosterman has some Rohnert has 552 00:26:04,740 --> 00:26:01,510 some it's scattered to the wind I think 553 00:26:09,799 --> 00:26:04,750 the answer is it's not there it's in his 554 00:26:14,460 --> 00:26:13,500 can we use up to five minutes okay thank 555 00:26:18,120 --> 00:26:14,470 you thank you 556 00:26:24,409 --> 00:26:18,130 [Applause]